Content-Type: message/rfc822 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 02:07:58 -0400 From: "jansymello" To: Subject: Fw: [NABOKV-L] On symmetry and Kinbote/ a red faced correction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=__Part4763102E.1__=" --=__Part4763102E.1__= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=__Part4763102E.2__=" --=__Part4763102E.2__= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A correction ( once again!) : When writing about "The Eve of St. Agnes" and "gules" I mentioned "red reflections of stained glass". The Red Admiral - Vanessa atalanta - has two red gules, but these in Keats are merely "warm" ( they might be yellow, orange, red...). Actually, in "LATH", VN mocks a translation from Keats' "a thing of beauty...", rendered as "Vsegda nas raduet krasivaya veshchitsa" in Russian. But also there he also writes about parturition and "a frightening stained window at every turn - the afterimage of a wounded orifice" ... Jansy ----- Original Message ----- From: jansymello To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] On symmetry and Kinbote Dear List and William Dane, CK wrote about PF as "the only novel I know that has an index even of any sort". WD's answer began with: "Another VN work that ...." before he suggested a comparison of their indexes. Would you include SM among VN's novels? ( I remember reading an explanation on this question, but I cannot now remember where ). In a posting distributed on August 9,2006, discussing VN's "heraldic images" I found two examples of the use of the word "gules" in poetry ( in E. Cobham Brewer 1810-1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.) One came from Timon of Athens and another from Keats in "The Eve of Saint Agnes". As a student, a long time ago, I was taught to pronounce "gules" like "jewels" ( and "gaol" as "jail"). Keats' poem speaks of "gules" as coming from the red reflections of the light of a wintry moon shining through stained glass. Colored windows are a recurrent theme in VN, particularly so in LATH. If anyone thinks that VN might have been mentioning Keats and "his warm gules" then there may be something else to chase... Would we find anything about Tamara in Fair Madeline's story? If so, how would it emerge in the guise of Zemblan jewels in Pale Fire? Jansy Then there is the little chase that starts with the listing for Jewels, which sends us to Stained Glass, which sends us to Pavilion (and back to Jewels.) ----- Original Message ----- From: William Dane To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] On symmetry and Kinbote . Perhaps it would serve an analysis of Pale Fire's index well to compare how the two function in relation to their works. I wonder for one thing if Speak, Memory's index appeared in the original version of that work (that is, prior to Pale Fire)? And if so, was it changed in any way for the newer version? A few interesting things that jump out on a quick analysis of the SM index include the presence of some of Nabokov's novels (The Real Life of Sebastian Knight is listed under S, of all letters). Then there is the little chase that starts with the listing for Jewels, which sends us to Stained Glass, which sends us to Pavilion (and back to Jewels.) In the two references under Pavilion (215-216; 230), we find descriptions of VN's pavilion in the woods, the little bridge near it (which brings to mind the bridge in the poem in SM's Foreword), Tamara and her friends' graffiti, Tamara and her friends themselves....I also see on page 217 a reference to a "pillared heap of stones marking a mountain trail", which brings to mind the Zemblan word Steinmann (PF page 143). At any rate these things may warrant deeper and more careful digging. wd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:08:01 -0800 From: chaiselongue@EARTHLINK.NET Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] On symmetry and Kinbote To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU > I don't see K. and S. getting confused in the Index entry on Shade. A lot of the pronouns do indeed refer to Kinbote, but they always have an antecedent in an earlier K. I took that as more of his egoism. > > Yes, it's interesting that the letter C can sound like both K and S (and it looks like, and is etymologically related to, G). But at that level you can konnekt everything with everything elce. Dear Jerry, Since this is the only novel I know that has an index even of any sort, I can't say that you are wrong, but in usual indexes the "he" refers to the person named in the heading. But under "Shade" in this index Shade is sometime "S" and sometimes "he"'; Kinbote is sometimes "K" and sometimes "he." The entries under "Kinbote" don't make this confusion. I do wish someone would analyze that Index - - it is quite interesting. For example this is found on the title page: "The capital letters stand for the three main characters G, K. S (which see) in this work." That "(which see)" is interesting because there are no such headings in the index, whereas the rest of the "qv"s always do take you to other headings, if not always helpfully. So I think "see" might be a pun on "C" just as "capital letters" is a pun on "characters." My attention was drawn to this as a clue because of the odd combination of simplicity and deceit in this apparently innocent statement. I was also struck at the oddity of the ordering of the three "characters" (why not K, S, G or S, K, G?). I concluded that VN wished to draw the reader's attention to those characters/letters - - but of course I could be wrong as you suggest. (In your theory, is it egoism if someone fulsomely admires his other personality? Maybe Kinbote suffers from alteregoism.) Alteregoism? Wonderful! (why didn't I think of that?) Carolyn Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB Contact the Editors All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors. Visit Zembla View Nabokv-L Policies ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live Spaces Share it! Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB Contact the Editors All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors. Visit Zembla View Nabokv-L Policies Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm --=__Part4763102E.2__= Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: HTML
A correction ( once again!) :
When writing about "The Eve of St. Agnes" and "gules" I mentioned "red reflections of stained glass". 
The Red Admiral - Vanessa atalanta - has two red gules, but these in Keats are merely "warm" ( they might be yellow, orange, red...).  
Actually, in "LATH",  VN  mocks a translation from Keats' "a thing of beauty...", rendered as "Vsegda nas raduet krasivaya veshchitsa" in Russian.
But also there he also writes about parturition and  "a frightening stained window at every turn - the afterimage of a wounded orifice" ...
Jansy
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: jansymello
To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] On symmetry and Kinbote

Dear List and William Dane,
 
CK wrote about PF as "the only novel I know that has an index even of any sort". 
WD's answer began with: "Another VN work that ...." before he suggested a comparison of their indexes.
Would you include SM among VN's novels? ( I remember reading an explanation on this question, but I cannot now remember where ).
 
In a posting distributed on August 9,2006, discussing VN's "heraldic images"  I found two examples of the use of the word "gules" in poetry ( in E. Cobham Brewer 1810-1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.) One came from Timon of Athens and another from Keats in  "The Eve of Saint Agnes".  
 
As a student, a long time ago, I was taught to pronounce "gules" like "jewels" ( and "gaol" as "jail").  
Keats' poem speaks of "gules" as coming from the red reflections of the light of a wintry moon shining through stained glass.  Colored windows are a recurrent theme in VN, particularly so in LATH. 
If  anyone thinks that VN might have been mentioning Keats and "his warm gules" then there may be something else to chase... 
Would we find anything about Tamara in Fair Madeline's story? If so, how would it emerge in the guise of Zemblan jewels in Pale Fire? 
Jansy
 
Then there is the little chase that starts with the listing for Jewels, which sends us to Stained Glass, which sends us to Pavilion (and back to Jewels.)  
----- Original Message -----
From: William Dane
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] On symmetry and Kinbote

 
. Perhaps it would serve an analysis of Pale Fire's index well to compare how the two function in relation to their works. I wonder for one thing if Speak, Memory's index appeared in the original version of that work (that is, prior to Pale Fire)? And if so, was it changed in any way for the newer version?
 
A few interesting things that jump out on a quick analysis of the SM index include the presence of some of Nabokov's novels (The Real Life of Sebastian Knight is listed under S, of all letters). Then there is the little chase that starts with the listing for Jewels, which sends us to Stained Glass, which sends us to Pavilion (and back to Jewels.) In the two references under Pavilion (215-216; 230), we find descriptions of VN's pavilion in the woods, the little bridge near it (which brings to mind the bridge in the poem in SM's Foreword), Tamara and her friends' graffiti, Tamara and her friends themselves....I also see on page 217 a reference to a "pillared heap of stones marking a mountain trail", which brings to mind the Zemblan word Steinmann (PF page 143). At any rate these things may warrant deeper and more careful digging.
 
wd





 
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:08:01 -0800
From: chaiselongue@EARTHLINK.NET
Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] On symmetry and Kinbote
To: NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU


> I don't see K. and S. getting confused in the Index entry on Shade.  A lot of the pronouns do indeed refer to Kinbote, but they always have an antecedent in an earlier K.  I took that as more of his egoism.  
>
> Yes, it's interesting that the letter C can sound like both K and S (and it looks like, and is etymologically related to, G).  But at that level you can konnekt everything with everything elce.

Dear Jerry,

Since this is the only novel I know that has an index even of any sort, I can't say that you are wrong, but in usual indexes the "he" refers to the person named in the heading. But under "Shade" in this index Shade is sometime "S" and sometimes "he"'; Kinbote is sometimes
"K" and sometimes "he." The entries under "Kinbote" don't make this confusion.

I do wish someone would analyze that Index - - it is quite interesting. For example this is found on the title page: "The capital letters  stand for the three main characters G, K. S (which see) in this work."

That "(which see)" is interesting because there are no such headings in the index, whereas the rest of the "qv"s always do take you to other headings, if not always helpfully. So I think "see" might be a pun on "C" just as "capital letters" is a pun on "characters." My attention was drawn to this as a clue because of the odd combination of simplicity and deceit in this apparently innocent statement. I was also struck at the oddity of the ordering of the three "characters" (why not K, S, G or S, K, G?).

I concluded that VN wished to draw the reader's attention to those characters/letters - - but of course I could be wrong as you suggest.

(In your theory, is it egoism if someone fulsomely admires his other personality?  Maybe Kinbote suffers from alteregoism.)

Alteregoism? Wonderful! (why didn't I think of that?)

Carolyn

Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB

Contact the Editors

All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors.

Visit Zembla

View Nabokv-L Policies


Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live Spaces Share it!

Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB

Contact the Editors

All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors.

Visit Zembla

View Nabokv-L Policies

Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB

Contact the Editors

All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors.

Visit Zembla

View Nabokv-L Policies

Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB

Contact the Editors

All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both co-editors.

Visit Zembla

View Nabokv-L Policies

--=__Part4763102E.2__=-- --=__Part4763102E.1__= Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Header" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Header" UmV0dXJuLXBhdGg6IDw+DQpSZWNlaXZlZDogZnJvbSBoOS5ob3N0c2VndXJvLmNvbSAoNjctMTUt ODAtNDUuaG9zdHNlZ3Vyby5jb20gWzY3LjE1LjgwLjQ1XSkNCglieSB1Y3NidXhhLnVjc2IuZWR1 ICg4LjEzLjYvOC4xMy42KSB3aXRoIEVTTVRQIGlkIGs5MTY4RGxOMDI4MjcyDQoJZm9yIDxuYWJv a3YtTEBsaXN0c2Vydi51Y3NiLmVkdT47IFNhdCwgMzAgU2VwIDIwMDYgMjM6MDg6MTMgLTA3MDAg KFBEVCkNClJlY2VpdmVkOiBmcm9tIFsyMDAuMTgxLjkzLjE5Ml0gKGhlbG89amFuc3kwMSkNCgli eSBoOS5ob3N0c2VndXJvLmNvbSB3aXRoIHNtdHAgKEV4aW0gNC41MikNCglpZCAxR1R1VWotMDAw Mm14LUxNDQoJZm9yIG5hYm9rdi1MQGxpc3RzZXJ2LnVjc2IuZWR1OyBTdW4sIDAxIE9jdCAyMDA2 IDAzOjA4OjExIC0wMzAwDQpNZXNzYWdlLUlEOiA8MDAxODAxYzZlNTFmJGYyMjU4NTkwJDY1MDFh OGMwQGphbnN5MDE+DQpGcm9tOiAiamFuc3ltZWxsbyIgPGphbnN5QGFldGVybi51cz4NClRvOiA8 bmFib2t2LUxAbGlzdHNlcnYudWNzYi5lZHU+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBGdzogW05BQk9LVi1MXSBPbiBz eW1tZXRyeSBhbmQgS2luYm90ZS8gYSByZWQgZmFjZWQgY29ycmVjdGlvbg0KRGF0ZTogU3VuLCAx IE9jdCAyMDA2IDAzOjA3OjU4IC0wMzAwDQpNSU1FLVZlcnNpb246IDEuMA0KQ29udGVudC1UeXBl OiBtdWx0aXBhcnQvYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmU7DQoJYm91bmRhcnk9Ii0tLS09X05leHRQYXJ0XzAwMF8w MDE1XzAxQzZFNTA2LkNCRjg0REQwIg0KWC1Qcmlvcml0eTogMw0KWC1NU01haWwtUHJpb3JpdHk6 IE5vcm1hbA0KWC1NYWlsZXI6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPdXRsb29rIEV4cHJlc3MgNi4wMC4yOTAwLjI4 NjkNClgtTWltZU9MRTogUHJvZHVjZWQgQnkgTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1pbWVPTEUgVjYuMDAuMjkwMC4y OTYyDQpYLUFudGlBYnVzZTogVGhpcyBoZWFkZXIgd2FzIGFkZGVkIHRvIHRyYWNrIGFidXNlLCBw bGVhc2UgaW5jbHVkZSBpdCB3aXRoIGFueSBhYnVzZSByZXBvcnQNClgtQW50aUFidXNlOiBQcmlt YXJ5IEhvc3RuYW1lIC0gaDkuaG9zdHNlZ3Vyby5jb20NClgtQW50aUFidXNlOiBPcmlnaW5hbCBE b21haW4gLSBsaXN0c2Vydi51Y3NiLmVkdQ0KWC1BbnRpQWJ1c2U6IE9yaWdpbmF0b3IvQ2FsbGVy IFVJRC9HSUQgLSBbMCAwXSAvIFs0NyAxMl0NClgtQW50aUFidXNlOiBTZW5kZXIgQWRkcmVzcyBE b21haW4gLSBhZXRlcm4udXMNClgtU291cmNlOiANClgtU291cmNlLUFyZ3M6IA0KWC1Tb3VyY2Ut RGlyOiANCg== --=__Part4763102E.1__=--