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Fw: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3529 Pale Fire
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----- Original Message -----
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:38 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3529
>
> pynchon-l-digest Wednesday, September 3 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3529
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:41:04 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Don Corathers
> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:41 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
> >
> > Continuing.
> >
> > p 109-110
> >
> > "... His bachelor bedroom, a splendid spacious circular apartment at the
> > top
> > of the high and massive South West Tower." This is the same room,
Kinbote
> > confirms a few pages later, where the king was confined during the
> > "tedious
> > and unnecessary Zemblan Revolution." And the room from which his father
> > used
> > to slip away for greenroom trysts with Iris Acht.
> >
> >
>
> That wasn't Alfin trysting, it was Thurgus the Third, Charles' grandfather
> (see 121).
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:49:15 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Don Corathers
> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:41 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > viola d'amore. [It., viol of love, ca. 1700] : a tenor viol having
usually
> > seven gut and seven wire strings. (MW10)
> >
>
> This must be why Fleur de Fyler reminded me of Joyce -- "Sir Tristram,
> violer d'amores" (FW:3). Embedded in the Zemblan couplet on p. 108 is the
> word "tristan," and also -- expanding 3 letters -- "kin-tristan," casting
> Kinbote into the unlikely role of Tristan (but note again Balthasar the
> gardener -- if Charles can be a reversed Hamlet, then Kinbote can be a
> reversed Tristan/Romeo).
>
> > Whoever made the mirror invested it with magical power that not only
> > directs
> > light but bends time: "a secret device of reflection gathered an
infinite
> > number of nudes in its depths, garlands of girls in graceful and
sorrowful
> > groups, diminishing in the limpid distance, or breaking into individual
> > nymphs, some of whom, she murmured, must resemble her ancestors when
they
> > were young--little peasant garlien combing their hair in shallow water
as
> > far as the eye could reach, and then the wistful mermaid from an old
tale,
> > and then nothing." Quite a mirror. Quite a paragraph.
> >
>
> More references to Hamlet -- Fleur as Ophelia: "in its depths, garlands of
> girls in graceful and sorrowful groups, diminishing in the limpid distance
> [...] combing their hair in shallow water" (see _Hamlet_ 4.5). "Sudarg of
> Bokay", in addition to being a mirror of Gradus, marks the origin of the
> mirror in flowers.
>
> Like the Balthasar in _Much Ado About Nothing_, Ophelia sings a "hey
nonny"
> song. I don't know whether to try to make anything of that.
>
> The phrases "little peasant /garlien/" and "the wistful mermaid from an
old
> tale" suggest the fairy tales that will pop up later. See also "The
Merman"
> (p. 129) and "mermaid azure."
>
> See also p. 183 for a mirror of this mirror and "an endless sequence of
> green-shorted Kinbotes."
>
> Sudarg signs his name with a diamond while Kinbote signs his name with a
> King. Both playing card suits. Just saying is all.
>
> The mirror here acts out in miniature a process that much of the novel's
> mirroring serves: transformations in time into art and eternity. Female
> linked to time, mortality, death, also reminds me of Joyce and Faulkner.
> What's that Joyce quote that has people linked by umbilical cords flying
> through eternity?
>
> Tempus Fugit
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:05:54 -0400
> From: "Mrs. McChoakemchild" <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: re: PF & Jimmy Joyce plays harmonica skeleton keys and the rain
>
> And these visions of Isaiah are now all that remain
>
> I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against
> me
>
>
>
> Pee Pee Ese Ulysses Ch. 3, 35-40,
> ⌠The cord of all link back, strandenwining cable of all flesh. That is
> why
> mystic monks. Will you be as gods? Gaze in your omphalos. Hello! Kinch
> here.
> Put me on to Edenville. Aleph, alpha: nought, nought, one.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:10:35 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: C.12: Angus MacDiarmid
>
>
http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Myths/Heroes&Heroines/The-Birth-of-
> Diarmuid/Page1.htm
>
>
http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Myths/FinnMacCool/Diarmuid-and-Grai
> nne/Page1.htm
>
> Wereboars, dead children, love triangles and the like.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:20:25 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: PF & Jimmy Joyce plays harmonica skeleton keys and the rain
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Mrs. McChoakemchild
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:06 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: re: PF & Jimmy Joyce plays harmonica skeleton keys and the rain
> >
> > And these visions of Isaiah are now all that remain
> >
> > I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against
> > me
> >
> >
> >
> > Pee Pee Ese Ulysses Ch. 3, 35-40,
> > "The cord of all link back, strandenwining cable of all flesh. That is
> > why
> > mystic monks. Will you be as gods? Gaze in your omphalos. Hello! Kinch
> > here.
> > Put me on to Edenville. Aleph, alpha: nought, nought, one.
>
> That's it, thanks. I also remembered this one: "Through spaces smaller
than
> red globules of man's blood they creepycrawl after Blake's buttocks into
> eternity of which this vegetable world is but a shadow. Hold to the now,
the
> here, through which all future plunges to the past." (_Ulysses_ Ch 9).
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:36:32 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> >
> > The mirror here acts out in miniature a process that much of the novel's
> > mirroring serves: transformations in time into art and eternity. Female
> > linked to time, mortality, death, also reminds me of Joyce and Faulkner.
> > What's that Joyce quote that has people linked by umbilical cords flying
> > through eternity?
> >
> > Tempus Fugit
>
> Looking through S~Z's Dictionary I note that she is standing before a
> looking glass with a comb. Now if that ain't a Pynchon connection I
> don't know what is. Shall I project a word from Graves? Mer maid. Mary
> maid Venus. Comb. Glass.
>
> The entry for "comb, mirror, glass" in the P-L archives is too long to
> quote, but how about that chevel glass. Now that's a horse of different
> colour worth a ride on a kingdom for.
>
> On hinges. Like a book.
>
> tripych: A hinged writing tablet consisting of three leaves, used in
> ancient Rome. A work consisting of three painted or carved panels that
> are hinged together. [From Greek triptukhos, threefold.
>
> garland: An anthology, as of ballads or poems.
>
>> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:51:42 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> p. 112
> "Gradus helping the fire brigade to clear a space in the square for the
> lynching of the non-union incendiaries, or at least of the persons (two
> baffled tourists from Denmark) who had been mistaken for them."
>
> More _Hamlet_: Rosencrantz and Guildenstern appear, and not for the last
> time -- they wander in and out of Zembla the way they do in Shakespeare's
> play.
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:57:38 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > That wasn't Alfin trysting, it was Thurgus the Third, Charles'
grandfather
>
> Of course. Sorry.
>
> Nice Hamlet stuff.
>
> Don
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:43:11 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2 (tendril)
>
> "...as a sister but with no soft shadow of incest or secondary
> homosexual complications. She had a small pale face with prominent cheek
> bones, luminous eyes, and curly dark hair. It was rumored that after
> going about with a porcelain cup and Cinderella's slipper for months,
> the society sculpture and poet Arnor had found in her ... Lilith Calling
> Back Adam ...
>
> Line 80 my bed room PF.108
>
> Van could not recollect whose picture it was that he had in mind, but
> thought it might be attributed to Michelangelo de Caravaggio in his
> youth. It was an oil on unframed canvas depicting two misbehaving nudes,
> boy and girl, in an ivied or vined grotto or near a small waterfall
> overhung with bronz-tinted with dark, emerald leaves, and great bunches
> of translucent grapes, the shadows and limpid reflections of fruit and
> foliage blending magically with veined flesh.
>
> Anyway (this may be purely stylistic transition), he felt himself
> transferred into that forbidden masterpiece, one afternoon, when
> everybody had gone to Brantome, and Ada and he were sunbathing on the
> brink of the Cascade in the larch plantation of Ardis Park, and his
> nymphet had bent over him and his detailed desire. Her long straight
> hair that seemed of a uniform bluish black in the shade now revealed, in
> the gem-like sun, strains of deep auburn alternating with dark amber in
> lanky strands which clothed her hollowed cheek or were gracefully cleft
> by her raised ivory shoulder.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:09:56 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Parents: some notes
>
> on 2/9/03 2:06 PM, Don Corathers at gumbo@fuse.net wrote:
>
> >> Your thesis doesn't really seem to fit with the other mentions of
Botkin
> >> which Kinbote makes in the commentary;
> >
> > Not sure what you mean by this. Botkin turns up again in the Commentary
on p
> > 267, in the context of an extended conversation about Kinbote's
resemblance
> > to the king of Zembla and his true identity.
>
> See also the note to line 172 (not noted in the Glossary), where Kinbote
> self-consciously makes parenthetic mention of "Prof. Botkin, who taught in
> another department". Your thesis was that it is Nabokov "rising close to
the
> surface" of the narrative to drop the name "Botkin", as a hint to the
reader
> that Botkin = Kinbote. It's actually a little more complex than that. As I
> pointed out, this and the subsequent references to "Botkin" are made
> self-consciously by Kinbote, and he seems to be (as directed by Nabokov,
of
> course) deliberately nurturing the Botkin-Kinbote ambiguities.
>
> best
>
>> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:01:53 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
> http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/kaplan1.htm
>
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:01 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
>
> > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/kaplan1.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:44:49 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2 (tendril)
>
> > "...as a sister but with no soft shadow of incest or secondary
> > homosexual complications.
>
>
> What does that mean, "secondary homosexual complications"? Anybody?
>
> Don
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terrance" <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Cc: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2 (tendril)
>
>
> She had a small pale face with prominent cheek
> > bones, luminous eyes, and curly dark hair. It was rumored that after
> > going about with a porcelain cup and Cinderella's slipper for months,
> > the society sculpture and poet Arnor had found in her ... Lilith Calling
> > Back Adam ...
> >
> > Line 80 my bed room PF.108
> >
> > Van could not recollect whose picture it was that he had in mind, but
> > thought it might be attributed to Michelangelo de Caravaggio in his
> > youth. It was an oil on unframed canvas depicting two misbehaving nudes,
> > boy and girl, in an ivied or vined grotto or near a small waterfall
> > overhung with bronz-tinted with dark, emerald leaves, and great bunches
> > of translucent grapes, the shadows and limpid reflections of fruit and
> > foliage blending magically with veined flesh.
> >
> > Anyway (this may be purely stylistic transition), he felt himself
> > transferred into that forbidden masterpiece, one afternoon, when
> > everybody had gone to Brantome, and Ada and he were sunbathing on the
> > brink of the Cascade in the larch plantation of Ardis Park, and his
> > nymphet had bent over him and his detailed desire. Her long straight
> > hair that seemed of a uniform bluish black in the shade now revealed, in
> > the gem-like sun, strains of deep auburn alternating with dark amber in
> > lanky strands which clothed her hollowed cheek or were gracefully cleft
> > by her raised ivory shoulder.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:54:11 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
> >>>Keith goes nuclear. Settles that, I reckon.<<<
>
> I didn't find that essay convincing, just like I don't find much of
anything
> Boyd writes convincing. These folks are smart, but Nabokov is smarter, and
> he's much more imaginative and humorous.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:35:14 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
> > >>>Keith goes nuclear. Settles that, I reckon.<<<
> >
> > I didn't find that essay convincing, just like I don't find much of
> anything
> > Boyd writes convincing. These folks are smart, but Nabokov is smarter,
and
> > he's much more imaginative and humorous.
> >
>
> I haven't finished reading Kaplan yet, but I think he's pretty persuasive
on
> the question of Kinbote = Botkin, which is a pretty well-established
reading
> as I understand it.
>
> The argument I was trying to make last night on Nabokov coming close to
> showing his authorial cards to get us to make the Kinbote/Botkin
connection
> was almost purely intuitive. To the extent there was any reasoning
involved,
> it was that since Kinbote ostensibly controls the narrative and wants to
> conceal his past as Botkin, Nabokov would have to either contrive to get
> Kinbote to act against his own interests (as a self-destructive psychotic
> might plausibly do) or otherwise subvert Kinbote's intentions in order to
> lead us to Botkin. Seemed to me that was what was happening in the two
> passages Rob and I were discussing.
>
> Don
>
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:00:00 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> Where are all of the Hamlet references headed? They point to Botkin, and
> they prepare us for Kinbote's contemplation of suicide. Is there a larger
> significance than we've seen on the ground in Zembla? If Fleur = Ophelia,
> does her mother = Polonius? Where's Claudius? Or is it just Hamlet as
> comedy, the joke being that Zembla, unlike Elsinore, can't even mount a
> proper palace intrigue? The two hapless Danish tourists as R&G, now that's
> funny.
>
> Don
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:49 PM
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Don Corathers
> > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:41 PM
> > > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
> >
> > > viola d'amore. [It., viol of love, ca. 1700] : a tenor viol having
> usually
> > > seven gut and seven wire strings. (MW10)
> > >
> >
> > This must be why Fleur de Fyler reminded me of Joyce -- "Sir Tristram,
> > violer d'amores" (FW:3). Embedded in the Zemblan couplet on p. 108 is
the
> > word "tristan," and also -- expanding 3 letters -- "kin-tristan,"
casting
> > Kinbote into the unlikely role of Tristan (but note again Balthasar the
> > gardener -- if Charles can be a reversed Hamlet, then Kinbote can be a
> > reversed Tristan/Romeo).
> >
> > > Whoever made the mirror invested it with magical power that not only
> > > directs
> > > light but bends time: "a secret device of reflection gathered an
> infinite
> > > number of nudes in its depths, garlands of girls in graceful and
> sorrowful
> > > groups, diminishing in the limpid distance, or breaking into
individual
> > > nymphs, some of whom, she murmured, must resemble her ancestors when
> they
> > > were young--little peasant garlien combing their hair in shallow water
> as
> > > far as the eye could reach, and then the wistful mermaid from an old
> tale,
> > > and then nothing." Quite a mirror. Quite a paragraph.
> > >
> >
> > More references to Hamlet -- Fleur as Ophelia: "in its depths, garlands
of
> > girls in graceful and sorrowful groups, diminishing in the limpid
distance
> > [...] combing their hair in shallow water" (see _Hamlet_ 4.5). "Sudarg
of
> > Bokay", in addition to being a mirror of Gradus, marks the origin of the
> > mirror in flowers.
> >
> > Like the Balthasar in _Much Ado About Nothing_, Ophelia sings a "hey
> nonny"
> > song. I don't know whether to try to make anything of that.
> >
> > The phrases "little peasant /garlien/" and "the wistful mermaid from an
> old
> > tale" suggest the fairy tales that will pop up later. See also "The
> Merman"
> > (p. 129) and "mermaid azure."
> >
> > See also p. 183 for a mirror of this mirror and "an endless sequence of
> > green-shorted Kinbotes."
> >
> > Sudarg signs his name with a diamond while Kinbote signs his name with a
> > King. Both playing card suits. Just saying is all.
> >
> > The mirror here acts out in miniature a process that much of the novel's
> > mirroring serves: transformations in time into art and eternity. Female
> > linked to time, mortality, death, also reminds me of Joyce and Faulkner.
> > What's that Joyce quote that has people linked by umbilical cords flying
> > through eternity?
> >
> > Tempus Fugit
> >
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:12:17 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF GoogleFight
>
> John Shade 768,000
> Charles Kinbote 1,020
>
>>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3529
> ********************************
From: "pynchon-l-digest" <owner-pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
To: <pynchon-l-digest@waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:38 PM
Subject: pynchon-l-digest V2 #3529
>
> pynchon-l-digest Wednesday, September 3 2003 Volume 02 : Number
3529
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:41:04 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Don Corathers
> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:41 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
> >
> > Continuing.
> >
> > p 109-110
> >
> > "... His bachelor bedroom, a splendid spacious circular apartment at the
> > top
> > of the high and massive South West Tower." This is the same room,
Kinbote
> > confirms a few pages later, where the king was confined during the
> > "tedious
> > and unnecessary Zemblan Revolution." And the room from which his father
> > used
> > to slip away for greenroom trysts with Iris Acht.
> >
> >
>
> That wasn't Alfin trysting, it was Thurgus the Third, Charles' grandfather
> (see 121).
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:49:15 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Don Corathers
> > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:41 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > viola d'amore. [It., viol of love, ca. 1700] : a tenor viol having
usually
> > seven gut and seven wire strings. (MW10)
> >
>
> This must be why Fleur de Fyler reminded me of Joyce -- "Sir Tristram,
> violer d'amores" (FW:3). Embedded in the Zemblan couplet on p. 108 is the
> word "tristan," and also -- expanding 3 letters -- "kin-tristan," casting
> Kinbote into the unlikely role of Tristan (but note again Balthasar the
> gardener -- if Charles can be a reversed Hamlet, then Kinbote can be a
> reversed Tristan/Romeo).
>
> > Whoever made the mirror invested it with magical power that not only
> > directs
> > light but bends time: "a secret device of reflection gathered an
infinite
> > number of nudes in its depths, garlands of girls in graceful and
sorrowful
> > groups, diminishing in the limpid distance, or breaking into individual
> > nymphs, some of whom, she murmured, must resemble her ancestors when
they
> > were young--little peasant garlien combing their hair in shallow water
as
> > far as the eye could reach, and then the wistful mermaid from an old
tale,
> > and then nothing." Quite a mirror. Quite a paragraph.
> >
>
> More references to Hamlet -- Fleur as Ophelia: "in its depths, garlands of
> girls in graceful and sorrowful groups, diminishing in the limpid distance
> [...] combing their hair in shallow water" (see _Hamlet_ 4.5). "Sudarg of
> Bokay", in addition to being a mirror of Gradus, marks the origin of the
> mirror in flowers.
>
> Like the Balthasar in _Much Ado About Nothing_, Ophelia sings a "hey
nonny"
> song. I don't know whether to try to make anything of that.
>
> The phrases "little peasant /garlien/" and "the wistful mermaid from an
old
> tale" suggest the fairy tales that will pop up later. See also "The
Merman"
> (p. 129) and "mermaid azure."
>
> See also p. 183 for a mirror of this mirror and "an endless sequence of
> green-shorted Kinbotes."
>
> Sudarg signs his name with a diamond while Kinbote signs his name with a
> King. Both playing card suits. Just saying is all.
>
> The mirror here acts out in miniature a process that much of the novel's
> mirroring serves: transformations in time into art and eternity. Female
> linked to time, mortality, death, also reminds me of Joyce and Faulkner.
> What's that Joyce quote that has people linked by umbilical cords flying
> through eternity?
>
> Tempus Fugit
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:05:54 -0400
> From: "Mrs. McChoakemchild" <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: re: PF & Jimmy Joyce plays harmonica skeleton keys and the rain
>
> And these visions of Isaiah are now all that remain
>
> I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against
> me
>
>
>
> Pee Pee Ese Ulysses Ch. 3, 35-40,
> ⌠The cord of all link back, strandenwining cable of all flesh. That is
> why
> mystic monks. Will you be as gods? Gaze in your omphalos. Hello! Kinch
> here.
> Put me on to Edenville. Aleph, alpha: nought, nought, one.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 10:10:35 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: C.12: Angus MacDiarmid
>
>
http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Myths/Heroes&Heroines/The-Birth-of-
> Diarmuid/Page1.htm
>
>
http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Myths/FinnMacCool/Diarmuid-and-Grai
> nne/Page1.htm
>
> Wereboars, dead children, love triangles and the like.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:20:25 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: PF & Jimmy Joyce plays harmonica skeleton keys and the rain
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > Behalf Of Mrs. McChoakemchild
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:06 PM
> > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > Subject: re: PF & Jimmy Joyce plays harmonica skeleton keys and the rain
> >
> > And these visions of Isaiah are now all that remain
> >
> > I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against
> > me
> >
> >
> >
> > Pee Pee Ese Ulysses Ch. 3, 35-40,
> > "The cord of all link back, strandenwining cable of all flesh. That is
> > why
> > mystic monks. Will you be as gods? Gaze in your omphalos. Hello! Kinch
> > here.
> > Put me on to Edenville. Aleph, alpha: nought, nought, one.
>
> That's it, thanks. I also remembered this one: "Through spaces smaller
than
> red globules of man's blood they creepycrawl after Blake's buttocks into
> eternity of which this vegetable world is but a shadow. Hold to the now,
the
> here, through which all future plunges to the past." (_Ulysses_ Ch 9).
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:36:32 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> >
> > The mirror here acts out in miniature a process that much of the novel's
> > mirroring serves: transformations in time into art and eternity. Female
> > linked to time, mortality, death, also reminds me of Joyce and Faulkner.
> > What's that Joyce quote that has people linked by umbilical cords flying
> > through eternity?
> >
> > Tempus Fugit
>
> Looking through S~Z's Dictionary I note that she is standing before a
> looking glass with a comb. Now if that ain't a Pynchon connection I
> don't know what is. Shall I project a word from Graves? Mer maid. Mary
> maid Venus. Comb. Glass.
>
> The entry for "comb, mirror, glass" in the P-L archives is too long to
> quote, but how about that chevel glass. Now that's a horse of different
> colour worth a ride on a kingdom for.
>
> On hinges. Like a book.
>
> tripych: A hinged writing tablet consisting of three leaves, used in
> ancient Rome. A work consisting of three painted or carved panels that
> are hinged together. [From Greek triptukhos, threefold.
>
> garland: An anthology, as of ballads or poems.
>
>> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:51:42 -0400
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> p. 112
> "Gradus helping the fire brigade to clear a space in the square for the
> lynching of the non-union incendiaries, or at least of the persons (two
> baffled tourists from Denmark) who had been mistaken for them."
>
> More _Hamlet_: Rosencrantz and Guildenstern appear, and not for the last
> time -- they wander in and out of Zembla the way they do in Shakespeare's
> play.
>
> Jasper Fidget
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:57:38 -0400
> From: <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> > That wasn't Alfin trysting, it was Thurgus the Third, Charles'
grandfather
>
> Of course. Sorry.
>
> Nice Hamlet stuff.
>
> Don
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:43:11 -0400
> From: Terrance <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2 (tendril)
>
> "...as a sister but with no soft shadow of incest or secondary
> homosexual complications. She had a small pale face with prominent cheek
> bones, luminous eyes, and curly dark hair. It was rumored that after
> going about with a porcelain cup and Cinderella's slipper for months,
> the society sculpture and poet Arnor had found in her ... Lilith Calling
> Back Adam ...
>
> Line 80 my bed room PF.108
>
> Van could not recollect whose picture it was that he had in mind, but
> thought it might be attributed to Michelangelo de Caravaggio in his
> youth. It was an oil on unframed canvas depicting two misbehaving nudes,
> boy and girl, in an ivied or vined grotto or near a small waterfall
> overhung with bronz-tinted with dark, emerald leaves, and great bunches
> of translucent grapes, the shadows and limpid reflections of fruit and
> foliage blending magically with veined flesh.
>
> Anyway (this may be purely stylistic transition), he felt himself
> transferred into that forbidden masterpiece, one afternoon, when
> everybody had gone to Brantome, and Ada and he were sunbathing on the
> brink of the Cascade in the larch plantation of Ardis Park, and his
> nymphet had bent over him and his detailed desire. Her long straight
> hair that seemed of a uniform bluish black in the shade now revealed, in
> the gem-like sun, strains of deep auburn alternating with dark amber in
> lanky strands which clothed her hollowed cheek or were gracefully cleft
> by her raised ivory shoulder.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:09:56 +1000
> From: jbor <jbor@bigpond.com>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Parents: some notes
>
> on 2/9/03 2:06 PM, Don Corathers at gumbo@fuse.net wrote:
>
> >> Your thesis doesn't really seem to fit with the other mentions of
Botkin
> >> which Kinbote makes in the commentary;
> >
> > Not sure what you mean by this. Botkin turns up again in the Commentary
on p
> > 267, in the context of an extended conversation about Kinbote's
resemblance
> > to the king of Zembla and his true identity.
>
> See also the note to line 172 (not noted in the Glossary), where Kinbote
> self-consciously makes parenthetic mention of "Prof. Botkin, who taught in
> another department". Your thesis was that it is Nabokov "rising close to
the
> surface" of the narrative to drop the name "Botkin", as a hint to the
reader
> that Botkin = Kinbote. It's actually a little more complex than that. As I
> pointed out, this and the subsequent references to "Botkin" are made
> self-consciously by Kinbote, and he seems to be (as directed by Nabokov,
of
> course) deliberately nurturing the Botkin-Kinbote ambiguities.
>
> best
>
>> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:01:53 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
> http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/kaplan1.htm
>
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:01 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
>
> > http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/kaplan1.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:44:49 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2 (tendril)
>
> > "...as a sister but with no soft shadow of incest or secondary
> > homosexual complications.
>
>
> What does that mean, "secondary homosexual complications"? Anybody?
>
> Don
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terrance" <lycidas2@earthlink.net>
> Cc: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2 (tendril)
>
>
> She had a small pale face with prominent cheek
> > bones, luminous eyes, and curly dark hair. It was rumored that after
> > going about with a porcelain cup and Cinderella's slipper for months,
> > the society sculpture and poet Arnor had found in her ... Lilith Calling
> > Back Adam ...
> >
> > Line 80 my bed room PF.108
> >
> > Van could not recollect whose picture it was that he had in mind, but
> > thought it might be attributed to Michelangelo de Caravaggio in his
> > youth. It was an oil on unframed canvas depicting two misbehaving nudes,
> > boy and girl, in an ivied or vined grotto or near a small waterfall
> > overhung with bronz-tinted with dark, emerald leaves, and great bunches
> > of translucent grapes, the shadows and limpid reflections of fruit and
> > foliage blending magically with veined flesh.
> >
> > Anyway (this may be purely stylistic transition), he felt himself
> > transferred into that forbidden masterpiece, one afternoon, when
> > everybody had gone to Brantome, and Ada and he were sunbathing on the
> > brink of the Cascade in the larch plantation of Ardis Park, and his
> > nymphet had bent over him and his detailed desire. Her long straight
> > hair that seemed of a uniform bluish black in the shade now revealed, in
> > the gem-like sun, strains of deep auburn alternating with dark amber in
> > lanky strands which clothed her hollowed cheek or were gracefully cleft
> > by her raised ivory shoulder.
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:54:11 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
> >>>Keith goes nuclear. Settles that, I reckon.<<<
>
> I didn't find that essay convincing, just like I don't find much of
anything
> Boyd writes convincing. These folks are smart, but Nabokov is smarter, and
> he's much more imaginative and humorous.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:35:14 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: Dr. Notebook
>
> > >>>Keith goes nuclear. Settles that, I reckon.<<<
> >
> > I didn't find that essay convincing, just like I don't find much of
> anything
> > Boyd writes convincing. These folks are smart, but Nabokov is smarter,
and
> > he's much more imaginative and humorous.
> >
>
> I haven't finished reading Kaplan yet, but I think he's pretty persuasive
on
> the question of Kinbote = Botkin, which is a pretty well-established
reading
> as I understand it.
>
> The argument I was trying to make last night on Nabokov coming close to
> showing his authorial cards to get us to make the Kinbote/Botkin
connection
> was almost purely intuitive. To the extent there was any reasoning
involved,
> it was that since Kinbote ostensibly controls the narrative and wants to
> conceal his past as Botkin, Nabokov would have to either contrive to get
> Kinbote to act against his own interests (as a self-destructive psychotic
> might plausibly do) or otherwise subvert Kinbote's intentions in order to
> lead us to Botkin. Seemed to me that was what was happening in the two
> passages Rob and I were discussing.
>
> Don
>
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:00:00 -0400
> From: "Don Corathers" <gumbo@fuse.net>
> Subject: Re: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
> Where are all of the Hamlet references headed? They point to Botkin, and
> they prepare us for Kinbote's contemplation of suicide. Is there a larger
> significance than we've seen on the ground in Zembla? If Fleur = Ophelia,
> does her mother = Polonius? Where's Claudius? Or is it just Hamlet as
> comedy, the joke being that Zembla, unlike Elsinore, can't even mount a
> proper palace intrigue? The two hapless Danish tourists as R&G, now that's
> funny.
>
> Don
>
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasper Fidget" <jasper@hatguild.org>
> To: <pynchon-l@waste.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 12:49 PM
> Subject: RE: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-pynchon-l@waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l@waste.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Don Corathers
> > > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 9:41 PM
> > > To: pynchon-l@waste.org
> > > Subject: NPPF Comm 2: My bedroom, part 2
> >
> > > viola d'amore. [It., viol of love, ca. 1700] : a tenor viol having
> usually
> > > seven gut and seven wire strings. (MW10)
> > >
> >
> > This must be why Fleur de Fyler reminded me of Joyce -- "Sir Tristram,
> > violer d'amores" (FW:3). Embedded in the Zemblan couplet on p. 108 is
the
> > word "tristan," and also -- expanding 3 letters -- "kin-tristan,"
casting
> > Kinbote into the unlikely role of Tristan (but note again Balthasar the
> > gardener -- if Charles can be a reversed Hamlet, then Kinbote can be a
> > reversed Tristan/Romeo).
> >
> > > Whoever made the mirror invested it with magical power that not only
> > > directs
> > > light but bends time: "a secret device of reflection gathered an
> infinite
> > > number of nudes in its depths, garlands of girls in graceful and
> sorrowful
> > > groups, diminishing in the limpid distance, or breaking into
individual
> > > nymphs, some of whom, she murmured, must resemble her ancestors when
> they
> > > were young--little peasant garlien combing their hair in shallow water
> as
> > > far as the eye could reach, and then the wistful mermaid from an old
> tale,
> > > and then nothing." Quite a mirror. Quite a paragraph.
> > >
> >
> > More references to Hamlet -- Fleur as Ophelia: "in its depths, garlands
of
> > girls in graceful and sorrowful groups, diminishing in the limpid
distance
> > [...] combing their hair in shallow water" (see _Hamlet_ 4.5). "Sudarg
of
> > Bokay", in addition to being a mirror of Gradus, marks the origin of the
> > mirror in flowers.
> >
> > Like the Balthasar in _Much Ado About Nothing_, Ophelia sings a "hey
> nonny"
> > song. I don't know whether to try to make anything of that.
> >
> > The phrases "little peasant /garlien/" and "the wistful mermaid from an
> old
> > tale" suggest the fairy tales that will pop up later. See also "The
> Merman"
> > (p. 129) and "mermaid azure."
> >
> > See also p. 183 for a mirror of this mirror and "an endless sequence of
> > green-shorted Kinbotes."
> >
> > Sudarg signs his name with a diamond while Kinbote signs his name with a
> > King. Both playing card suits. Just saying is all.
> >
> > The mirror here acts out in miniature a process that much of the novel's
> > mirroring serves: transformations in time into art and eternity. Female
> > linked to time, mortality, death, also reminds me of Joyce and Faulkner.
> > What's that Joyce quote that has people linked by umbilical cords flying
> > through eternity?
> >
> > Tempus Fugit
> >
>
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:12:17 -0700
> From: "s~Z" <keithsz@concentric.net>
> Subject: NPPF GoogleFight
>
> John Shade 768,000
> Charles Kinbote 1,020
>
>>
> End of pynchon-l-digest V2 #3529
> ********************************