Subject
TT persona : Hugh Person's name (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Date: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:29 PM -0700
From: Mary Krimmel <mary@krimmel.net>
To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Subject: TT persona : Hugh Person's name
------------------
On a past first reading of TT I got very little from it or of it, but
Hugh's name did strike me, especially in Armande's pronunciation, as sort
of a memento mori to the reader. You (Living) Person, you're mortal too.
Thanks for the reminder of Stephen Dedalus's age. And for all the
expanding notes and remarks and ideas from all of you on the list. This is
the best way to read a book - with a bunch of experts!
Mary Krimmel
At 08:07 PM 7/25/04 -0700, you wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> Date: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:15 PM -0300
> From: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Re: TT persona : Hugh Person's name
>
> Dear Mary Bellino,
>
> your contributions are always interesting,amazing and thorough. When you
> wrote about Romans and "prosopon" ( and masks with eyes, ops... I was
> reminded of a movie by Jean Cocteau, some sort of
> revisitation-testamentary "Orpheus", where the masks were simply
> incredibly lovely painted sort of Etruscan eyes on people's faces!) I was
> reminded of a figure of speech in Portuguese called " prosopopeia".
> I googled it and I found:- PROSOPOPEIA = (personificar = personificação).
> When one atributes life, action or gives voice to inanimate, absent or
> dead people. Personification (= anthropomorfism) of animals and objects.
> Jansy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 8:56 PM
> Subject: Re: TT persona : Hugh Person's name
>
>
>> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
>> Date: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:59 PM -0400
>> From: Mary Bellino <iambe@rcn.com>
>> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: TT persona
>> ------------------
>>
>> I haven't been following the TT discussion, but Jansy's
>> mention of Etruscans caught my eye, and I have something to add about the
>> name of TT's protagonist.
>>
>> First, though -- on the etymology of the noun "persona" and whether it
>> is related to the Latin verb personare: the "o" is long in the noun and
>> short in the verb, so that is a weak argument against it. Persona has
>> long been thought to derive from the Etruscan word for mask, "phersu"
>> (which would make it one of the very few English words with an Etruscan
>> root). Now, what the Romans needed was a word to translate the Greek
>> prosopon, the mask worn by tragic actors. Prosopon literally means
>> "face," but the root is "ops," eye, and the Romans no doubt knew that,
>> so it is questionable whether they would choose a word that means "sound
>> through" to translate it. Thus the Etruscan "phersu" is actually the
>> more logical candidate; note that in ancient Greek, at least, "ph" was
>> not pronounced like "f" but more like "p" with a little extra breath.
>> The per + sonare derivation is however attested by Aulus Gellius, a
>> 2nd-century miscellanist, though that is by no means conclusive. For one
>> thing, he calls it "witty," suggesting that it was not the traditional
>> etymology.
>>
>> All of that is neither here nor there -- the important thing is what
>> freight Nabokov thought the word carried. And here I would point out a
>> passage in Lolita, where HH is ringing the doorbell of Lolita's Coalmont
>> home. "I pressed the bell button, it vibrated through my whole system.
>> _Personne. Je resonne. Repersonne_. From what depths this re-nonsense?"
>> (269 of AnnLo). Appel translates it as "Nobody. I re-rang the bell.
>> Re-nobody" -- and the word "re-nobody" occurs again when HH knocks at
>> Pavor manor. But in the context of the doorbell vibrating through HH's
>> system, I do think Nabokov is playing with the Latin elements of
>> personne/person in two ways: per can mean "through" and it can also mean
>> "thoroughly -- resoundingly, as it were -- so it works as a sort of
>> macaronic pun, and it shows, I think, that Nabokov had the idea of per +
>> sonare as part of his mental file card on "person." And then too of
>> course there is the French personne, which can mean either any person or
>> no person--or, as my dictionary puts it, "anyone, anybody (with vaguely
>> implied negation)." Sure sounds like Hugh to me.
>>
>> Mary
>>
>> ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
>>
>>
>>
>> D. Barton Johnson
>> NABOKV-L
>>
>
>
> ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
>
>
>
> D. Barton Johnson
> NABOKV-L
---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
D. Barton Johnson
NABOKV-L
Date: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:29 PM -0700
From: Mary Krimmel <mary@krimmel.net>
To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
Subject: TT persona : Hugh Person's name
------------------
On a past first reading of TT I got very little from it or of it, but
Hugh's name did strike me, especially in Armande's pronunciation, as sort
of a memento mori to the reader. You (Living) Person, you're mortal too.
Thanks for the reminder of Stephen Dedalus's age. And for all the
expanding notes and remarks and ideas from all of you on the list. This is
the best way to read a book - with a bunch of experts!
Mary Krimmel
At 08:07 PM 7/25/04 -0700, you wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
> Date: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:15 PM -0300
> From: Jansy Berndt de Souza Mello <jansy@aetern.us>
> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Re: TT persona : Hugh Person's name
>
> Dear Mary Bellino,
>
> your contributions are always interesting,amazing and thorough. When you
> wrote about Romans and "prosopon" ( and masks with eyes, ops... I was
> reminded of a movie by Jean Cocteau, some sort of
> revisitation-testamentary "Orpheus", where the masks were simply
> incredibly lovely painted sort of Etruscan eyes on people's faces!) I was
> reminded of a figure of speech in Portuguese called " prosopopeia".
> I googled it and I found:- PROSOPOPEIA = (personificar = personificação).
> When one atributes life, action or gives voice to inanimate, absent or
> dead people. Personification (= anthropomorfism) of animals and objects.
> Jansy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Barton Johnson" <chtodel@gss.ucsb.edu>
> To: <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 8:56 PM
> Subject: Re: TT persona : Hugh Person's name
>
>
>> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------
>> Date: Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:59 PM -0400
>> From: Mary Bellino <iambe@rcn.com>
>> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: TT persona
>> ------------------
>>
>> I haven't been following the TT discussion, but Jansy's
>> mention of Etruscans caught my eye, and I have something to add about the
>> name of TT's protagonist.
>>
>> First, though -- on the etymology of the noun "persona" and whether it
>> is related to the Latin verb personare: the "o" is long in the noun and
>> short in the verb, so that is a weak argument against it. Persona has
>> long been thought to derive from the Etruscan word for mask, "phersu"
>> (which would make it one of the very few English words with an Etruscan
>> root). Now, what the Romans needed was a word to translate the Greek
>> prosopon, the mask worn by tragic actors. Prosopon literally means
>> "face," but the root is "ops," eye, and the Romans no doubt knew that,
>> so it is questionable whether they would choose a word that means "sound
>> through" to translate it. Thus the Etruscan "phersu" is actually the
>> more logical candidate; note that in ancient Greek, at least, "ph" was
>> not pronounced like "f" but more like "p" with a little extra breath.
>> The per + sonare derivation is however attested by Aulus Gellius, a
>> 2nd-century miscellanist, though that is by no means conclusive. For one
>> thing, he calls it "witty," suggesting that it was not the traditional
>> etymology.
>>
>> All of that is neither here nor there -- the important thing is what
>> freight Nabokov thought the word carried. And here I would point out a
>> passage in Lolita, where HH is ringing the doorbell of Lolita's Coalmont
>> home. "I pressed the bell button, it vibrated through my whole system.
>> _Personne. Je resonne. Repersonne_. From what depths this re-nonsense?"
>> (269 of AnnLo). Appel translates it as "Nobody. I re-rang the bell.
>> Re-nobody" -- and the word "re-nobody" occurs again when HH knocks at
>> Pavor manor. But in the context of the doorbell vibrating through HH's
>> system, I do think Nabokov is playing with the Latin elements of
>> personne/person in two ways: per can mean "through" and it can also mean
>> "thoroughly -- resoundingly, as it were -- so it works as a sort of
>> macaronic pun, and it shows, I think, that Nabokov had the idea of per +
>> sonare as part of his mental file card on "person." And then too of
>> course there is the French personne, which can mean either any person or
>> no person--or, as my dictionary puts it, "anyone, anybody (with vaguely
>> implied negation)." Sure sounds like Hugh to me.
>>
>> Mary
>>
>> ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
>>
>>
>>
>> D. Barton Johnson
>> NABOKV-L
>>
>
>
> ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
>
>
>
> D. Barton Johnson
> NABOKV-L
---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
D. Barton Johnson
NABOKV-L