Subject
Re: Cherokee Nouns and VN (and mathematics)
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> Not to get pedantic again, especially about such an impressive
> achievement of yours, but Sequoyah wasn't a chief.
>
> Jerry Friedman
JF: Not pedantic at all. One man's pedantry is another's attention to
detail. This list demands Nabokovian precision, and I fall on my sword
unable to believe my lapses. I was writing from the top of my senile
neurons, being some 5,000 miles from my extensive Cherokee library
(it's in a Mill Valley, CA attic, whether you need to know or not, and
ranges from Bibles to bilingual Popeye comics!), and 20+ years away from
lessons in Oklahoma.
The 3 syllables for "Cherokee" look like GWy (tsa-la-gi according to
the
chart which is itself a sort of transliteration _squared_) and are the
first
characters one learns (of course) which adds to my permutational
embarrassment. The direction of transliteration is tricky, since there
are
no "native" symbols matching the Western sounds "ch[urch]" or
"ki[ck],"
(although there is a "ka" symbol) while the "r" and "l" sounds are as
intermingled as in, say, Japanese. The syllabary does its best but,
alas, no
writing system (not even the extended IPA) can fully match our
peculiar
sounds. So, we have the preliterate name for the Nation which sounded
like
"Cherokee" to the invaders (both white and Creek Indian!) but in
Sequoyah's
system was spelled CWy which can be "read" as tsa-la-gi from the
official
chart -- for the actual sound you'll need a .wav file, an audio-tape,
or one
more fluent than this dabbler. My Cherokee is many strokes less than on
a
par with the Russian of Bunny Wilson or Constance Garnett (the
latter's
translations being "dry shit" according to VN's letter to James
Laughlin,
July 16, 1942).
You might like to know that one of Sequoyah's syllables, written v,
represents a nasal "uh" -- interestingly, it's used at the end of
phrases to
signal a question, as in our own "uh?" or the French "n'est-ce-pas?"
Spooky,
uh? Was it the part-Cherokee Will Rogers who quipped "Speaking Indian
is
easy when you know HOW?"
Re-the phonetic challenge: There's VN's various strings to display the
odd,
often phatic, plops and puffs we emit without much semantic effort.
I suppose I should have written "Chief" rather than Chief Sequoyah --
compare VN's "Reality!" He was, _really_, initially named George Gist,
later
transcribed as Guess (mother Wu-teh was a Cherokee Chief's daughter;
father
a Virginian fur trader, Nathaniel Gist). Blackhumouredly nick-named
Sikwo-yi
(Pig's Foot!) because of his born-with deformities. He was certainly
widely
addressed honorifically as "Chief" by a grateful Nation. BTW: the
recent
Principal Chief of the Oklahoma Cherokees, Wilma MANKILLER was also of
"mixed-blood" and a woman (not) to boot! She's well-worth a google. As
is
"Trail of Tears." On this occasion, her name came not from cheeky
word-play
but from her father's name via their birthplace (Mankiller Flats,
Tahlequah
OK) But remarkably apposite considering her work for women's rights.
Finally, may I thank you JF for your many contributions that have
helped my
own, amateur-bricoleur VN odyssey. In particular, your posting on VN
and
mathematics I found in the archives. You may know of the irony that G.
H.
Hardy's "purer-than-pure" work on Number Theory has proved to be a
"front-line" military tool? All to do with encryption/decryption using
large
prime factors.
Stan Kelly-Bootle (E&OE!)
Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
> achievement of yours, but Sequoyah wasn't a chief.
>
> Jerry Friedman
JF: Not pedantic at all. One man's pedantry is another's attention to
detail. This list demands Nabokovian precision, and I fall on my sword
unable to believe my lapses. I was writing from the top of my senile
neurons, being some 5,000 miles from my extensive Cherokee library
(it's in a Mill Valley, CA attic, whether you need to know or not, and
ranges from Bibles to bilingual Popeye comics!), and 20+ years away from
lessons in Oklahoma.
The 3 syllables for "Cherokee" look like GWy (tsa-la-gi according to
the
chart which is itself a sort of transliteration _squared_) and are the
first
characters one learns (of course) which adds to my permutational
embarrassment. The direction of transliteration is tricky, since there
are
no "native" symbols matching the Western sounds "ch[urch]" or
"ki[ck],"
(although there is a "ka" symbol) while the "r" and "l" sounds are as
intermingled as in, say, Japanese. The syllabary does its best but,
alas, no
writing system (not even the extended IPA) can fully match our
peculiar
sounds. So, we have the preliterate name for the Nation which sounded
like
"Cherokee" to the invaders (both white and Creek Indian!) but in
Sequoyah's
system was spelled CWy which can be "read" as tsa-la-gi from the
official
chart -- for the actual sound you'll need a .wav file, an audio-tape,
or one
more fluent than this dabbler. My Cherokee is many strokes less than on
a
par with the Russian of Bunny Wilson or Constance Garnett (the
latter's
translations being "dry shit" according to VN's letter to James
Laughlin,
July 16, 1942).
You might like to know that one of Sequoyah's syllables, written v,
represents a nasal "uh" -- interestingly, it's used at the end of
phrases to
signal a question, as in our own "uh?" or the French "n'est-ce-pas?"
Spooky,
uh? Was it the part-Cherokee Will Rogers who quipped "Speaking Indian
is
easy when you know HOW?"
Re-the phonetic challenge: There's VN's various strings to display the
odd,
often phatic, plops and puffs we emit without much semantic effort.
I suppose I should have written "Chief" rather than Chief Sequoyah --
compare VN's "Reality!" He was, _really_, initially named George Gist,
later
transcribed as Guess (mother Wu-teh was a Cherokee Chief's daughter;
father
a Virginian fur trader, Nathaniel Gist). Blackhumouredly nick-named
Sikwo-yi
(Pig's Foot!) because of his born-with deformities. He was certainly
widely
addressed honorifically as "Chief" by a grateful Nation. BTW: the
recent
Principal Chief of the Oklahoma Cherokees, Wilma MANKILLER was also of
"mixed-blood" and a woman (not) to boot! She's well-worth a google. As
is
"Trail of Tears." On this occasion, her name came not from cheeky
word-play
but from her father's name via their birthplace (Mankiller Flats,
Tahlequah
OK) But remarkably apposite considering her work for women's rights.
Finally, may I thank you JF for your many contributions that have
helped my
own, amateur-bricoleur VN odyssey. In particular, your posting on VN
and
mathematics I found in the archives. You may know of the irony that G.
H.
Hardy's "purer-than-pure" work on Number Theory has proved to be a
"front-line" military tool? All to do with encryption/decryption using
large
prime factors.
Stan Kelly-Bootle (E&OE!)
Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm