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Re: J Friedman re: A.S. Brown on Kinbote's Christianity
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Mr. Friedman,
Your note had no salutation, but the subject line names me, and I believe I
alone recently called Kinbote a fundamentalist Christian, so I will respond
to your points one by one ...
True, fundamentalists aren¹t casual about homosexuality. Because the bible
is considered the single demonstration of the voice of God, and the bible
seems to speak out against homosexuality, the fundamentalist at worship is
obliged to denounce homosexuality. So they engage in other games, practices
and punishments that well educated or, at least, very perceptive persons can
see at a glance are so saturated with homosexuality, that the Sunday school
superintendent, the pastor, or head deacon is always very surprised when
they are at last confronted, sometimes by the police.
I will describe further along why I do not think fundamentalists spend time
studying the Bible (nor official doctrine and devotions, since I¹m thinking
of "fundamentalist Catholics"). In a religious argument, fundamentalists,
Protestant and Catholic alike rely much less on the Bible as proof than they
do on what the priest or pastor of their church has hollered at them. In
difficult situations, they do not turn to the Bible as much as they do
prayer. The modern prayer liturgy goes something like this: ³Holy God! Get
me out of this situation and I swear to Christ I¹ll never do a damn thing
wrong again as long as I live! Kinbote¹s four-word prayer is of the
distinctly modern type. Fundamentalists do tend to "give God the glory,"
and not infrequently give God a good chunk of the money, as well, by tithing
(10%). The church, however, is not over burdened with taxes in America, and
I think, in making out your tax returns, a good CPA can help you make those
church contributions work pretty hard for you. A win-win situation.
In my direct experience, and in my reading, fundamentalists when caught out
of bounds rarely if ever reproach themselves. They will, however, genuinely
forgive and pray for those who persecuteth them.
I was not thinking of fundamentalist Catholics. Too little of their
teachings come from the Bible for them to be ³fundamentalist² in my eyes. I
was thinking of post-apocalyptic Protestant fundamentalist evangelicals. But
I can briefly tell you one anecdote about a repressed Catholic
fundamentalist, told me by a good friend. When my friend was a boy of about
thirteen, he and a male friend were invited to stay overnight at the rustic
cottage of one of their church's priests. On the drive to the rural cabin,
the priest brought out some gay pornography from the glove box which he
handed it out to the boys. The priest said the photos were a demonstration
of the exuberant celebration young men were entitled to do as male children
of God.
At the cottage, the priest suggested swimming. As the boys changed into
their swim suits in a ramshackle bathhouse, the priest knocked the door open
and said he wanted the boys to swim naked. The priest, naked, and not a
pretty sight, claimed this was the way God intended boys to swim. One of the
boys went in the water without a suit; my friend wore his swimsuit
regardless of the priest, of whom he was growing suspicious.
In the water, the priest roughly manhandled the naked boy, all in good,
manly horseplay, as God intended, etcetera. My friend kept his distance
until the priest came to engage him in the sport, as well. My friend, whose
Detroit police officer father had always told his tough son not to let any
man touch him, kicked the priest in his unclothed crotch.
That night the boys told the priest that they wanted to sleep outside in a
tent (a self-protective gambit the boys had decided on as soon as the
swimming was over). Late that night, the boys heard the priest crashing
around in the undergrowth nearby, drunkenly muttering about the boys¹
³ingratitude² and sinfulness in disobeying a priest. Shortly after the
weekend visit was over, my friend quit attending mass, but was ashamed to to
tell his parents why.
Years later, when many Catholic diocese were under investigation for child
abuse and child molestation, my friend ran into his old priest. My friend
confronted him about the summer weekend. The priest angrily denied all, and
again attacked my friend¹s ingratitude for the lesson I manliness the priest
had tried to instill.
At the urging of a police officer, my friend wrote and submitted to his
archdiocese a full description of what he had undergone. The priest was
shortly afterward removed to the parish of a distant state. There was no
talk of censure or even of rehabilitation of the priest. He was simply
removed to a different parish where he fulfilled the same duties as before
as recreation director for the parish boys.
Most of the evangelicals I have met personally, almost all Protestant, have
not read, or are able to intelligently discuss very much at all of the
bible. And I do not say this as a bible scholar, merely as a reader. I would
say that Catholic priests are the most limited in this regard, often denying
the fact (for example), clearly stated in the Gospels and the book of Acts,
that Jesus had younger brothers, thus defeating the chief notion of
Mariolatry: that the virgin Mary gave birth only to the Savior, and had no
knowledge of sex, in that venture or any other. Among Christ¹s younger
brothers were Josephus, Jesse, and Judas (not of Iscariot).
There are some very fundamentalist high-church Anglicans, but their views,
in my experience, are those of highly evolved American semi-Catholics who
have come full circle back to the type of people in England who the original
pilgrims, who had come to America to leave all the high church fripperies,
sinful imagery, and decadent arts behind. In conversation I¹ve found
Anglicans to be more in touch with C.S. Lewis than with the Bible.
Kinbote¹s Zemblan religious practices, particularly his acolyte memories,
bear no resemblance to any Christian service I¹ve ever seen. VN never
claimed to be Christian, and I do not think he heavily researched any
Protestant or Catholic religious practices in order to make Charles Kinbote
into a ³real² one. There would be no place for such a character in Pale
Fire.
The young priest episode is on page 88 of my Vintage International paperback
of Pale Fire, and is toward the end of the long commentary note to lines
47-48. It begins thus: ³Once, decades ago, in my tender and terrible
boyhood, I had the occasion of seeing a man in the act of making contact
with God.² I do not believe this priest is a New Wye citizen, but the
subject of one of Charles Kinbote¹s Zemblan childhood memories. Assuming
Kinbote had an actual past that was not the creation of another mind.
Kinbote¹s Christianity is not conventional, but is a fancy invention based
on the hope of a forgiving Christ and a monarch-loving God. I don¹t believe
Shade is a Christian of any stripe, but is quite possibly a ghost, hovering
over the places where his corporeal life was passed, frightened, pained, and
fascinated by the idea of death, and still uncertain of how to get on a
proper footing in eternity. In the end, Shade¹s soul flies free, in
defiance of the old expression of a ghost, a shade, being ³laid² as in ³laid
to rest.²
This fearsomely lengthy note comes to you courtesy of the Insomniacs
Positive Hope association.
Your servant, sir,
Andrew S. Brown
On 9/7/06 10:16 PM, "Nabokv-L" <nabokv-l@UTK.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] A.S. Brown on Kinbote's Christianity
> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
> <mailto:jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> <mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> I'm struck by your attribution of fundamentalism to Kinbote, just
> as I was by Carolyn's attribution of zealotry. As I understand it,
> fundamentalists aren't casual about homosexuality--if they can't
> help engaging in it, they try to justify it religiously or reproach
> themselves afterwards. They spend time studying the Bible (and
> official doctrine and devotions, if you're thinking of
> "fundamentalist Catholics"), and in a religious argument, they rely
> on it as proof. In difficult situations, they turn to the Bible or
> to prayer. (Kinbote gives us one four-word prayer.) They "give
> God the glory" when talking about their accomplishments, at least
> when they remember to.
>
> Explicitly, "our Zemblan brand of Protestantism is rather closely
> related to some of the 'higher' churches of the Anglican
> communion" (n. 549). I think high-church Anglicans are far from
> fundamentalists.
>
> Kinbote does attend two services one Sunday and does mention his
> Christianity several times, but I wouldn't even call him devout,
> much less a zealot or a fundamentalist.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by identifying the young priest. Are
> you thinking he's some New Wye character transformed in Kinbote's
> delusion?
>
> My main feeling on Kinbote's Christianity is that it's conventional
> and contrasts with Shade's superior and original understanding of
> the supernatural and the afterlife (whether he's going to heaven or
> not). But no doubt I'm missing a lot in the details. (A friend of
> mine has the maiden name Rodstein--probably just a coincidence.)
>
> No other Christianity is mentioned in the book, right? (Except the
> Pope.)
>
> Jerry Friedman
>
> Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB
> <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html>
> Contact the Editors <mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu>
> All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both
> co-editors.
> Visit Zembla <http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm>
> View Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm>
>
Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Your note had no salutation, but the subject line names me, and I believe I
alone recently called Kinbote a fundamentalist Christian, so I will respond
to your points one by one ...
True, fundamentalists aren¹t casual about homosexuality. Because the bible
is considered the single demonstration of the voice of God, and the bible
seems to speak out against homosexuality, the fundamentalist at worship is
obliged to denounce homosexuality. So they engage in other games, practices
and punishments that well educated or, at least, very perceptive persons can
see at a glance are so saturated with homosexuality, that the Sunday school
superintendent, the pastor, or head deacon is always very surprised when
they are at last confronted, sometimes by the police.
I will describe further along why I do not think fundamentalists spend time
studying the Bible (nor official doctrine and devotions, since I¹m thinking
of "fundamentalist Catholics"). In a religious argument, fundamentalists,
Protestant and Catholic alike rely much less on the Bible as proof than they
do on what the priest or pastor of their church has hollered at them. In
difficult situations, they do not turn to the Bible as much as they do
prayer. The modern prayer liturgy goes something like this: ³Holy God! Get
me out of this situation and I swear to Christ I¹ll never do a damn thing
wrong again as long as I live! Kinbote¹s four-word prayer is of the
distinctly modern type. Fundamentalists do tend to "give God the glory,"
and not infrequently give God a good chunk of the money, as well, by tithing
(10%). The church, however, is not over burdened with taxes in America, and
I think, in making out your tax returns, a good CPA can help you make those
church contributions work pretty hard for you. A win-win situation.
In my direct experience, and in my reading, fundamentalists when caught out
of bounds rarely if ever reproach themselves. They will, however, genuinely
forgive and pray for those who persecuteth them.
I was not thinking of fundamentalist Catholics. Too little of their
teachings come from the Bible for them to be ³fundamentalist² in my eyes. I
was thinking of post-apocalyptic Protestant fundamentalist evangelicals. But
I can briefly tell you one anecdote about a repressed Catholic
fundamentalist, told me by a good friend. When my friend was a boy of about
thirteen, he and a male friend were invited to stay overnight at the rustic
cottage of one of their church's priests. On the drive to the rural cabin,
the priest brought out some gay pornography from the glove box which he
handed it out to the boys. The priest said the photos were a demonstration
of the exuberant celebration young men were entitled to do as male children
of God.
At the cottage, the priest suggested swimming. As the boys changed into
their swim suits in a ramshackle bathhouse, the priest knocked the door open
and said he wanted the boys to swim naked. The priest, naked, and not a
pretty sight, claimed this was the way God intended boys to swim. One of the
boys went in the water without a suit; my friend wore his swimsuit
regardless of the priest, of whom he was growing suspicious.
In the water, the priest roughly manhandled the naked boy, all in good,
manly horseplay, as God intended, etcetera. My friend kept his distance
until the priest came to engage him in the sport, as well. My friend, whose
Detroit police officer father had always told his tough son not to let any
man touch him, kicked the priest in his unclothed crotch.
That night the boys told the priest that they wanted to sleep outside in a
tent (a self-protective gambit the boys had decided on as soon as the
swimming was over). Late that night, the boys heard the priest crashing
around in the undergrowth nearby, drunkenly muttering about the boys¹
³ingratitude² and sinfulness in disobeying a priest. Shortly after the
weekend visit was over, my friend quit attending mass, but was ashamed to to
tell his parents why.
Years later, when many Catholic diocese were under investigation for child
abuse and child molestation, my friend ran into his old priest. My friend
confronted him about the summer weekend. The priest angrily denied all, and
again attacked my friend¹s ingratitude for the lesson I manliness the priest
had tried to instill.
At the urging of a police officer, my friend wrote and submitted to his
archdiocese a full description of what he had undergone. The priest was
shortly afterward removed to the parish of a distant state. There was no
talk of censure or even of rehabilitation of the priest. He was simply
removed to a different parish where he fulfilled the same duties as before
as recreation director for the parish boys.
Most of the evangelicals I have met personally, almost all Protestant, have
not read, or are able to intelligently discuss very much at all of the
bible. And I do not say this as a bible scholar, merely as a reader. I would
say that Catholic priests are the most limited in this regard, often denying
the fact (for example), clearly stated in the Gospels and the book of Acts,
that Jesus had younger brothers, thus defeating the chief notion of
Mariolatry: that the virgin Mary gave birth only to the Savior, and had no
knowledge of sex, in that venture or any other. Among Christ¹s younger
brothers were Josephus, Jesse, and Judas (not of Iscariot).
There are some very fundamentalist high-church Anglicans, but their views,
in my experience, are those of highly evolved American semi-Catholics who
have come full circle back to the type of people in England who the original
pilgrims, who had come to America to leave all the high church fripperies,
sinful imagery, and decadent arts behind. In conversation I¹ve found
Anglicans to be more in touch with C.S. Lewis than with the Bible.
Kinbote¹s Zemblan religious practices, particularly his acolyte memories,
bear no resemblance to any Christian service I¹ve ever seen. VN never
claimed to be Christian, and I do not think he heavily researched any
Protestant or Catholic religious practices in order to make Charles Kinbote
into a ³real² one. There would be no place for such a character in Pale
Fire.
The young priest episode is on page 88 of my Vintage International paperback
of Pale Fire, and is toward the end of the long commentary note to lines
47-48. It begins thus: ³Once, decades ago, in my tender and terrible
boyhood, I had the occasion of seeing a man in the act of making contact
with God.² I do not believe this priest is a New Wye citizen, but the
subject of one of Charles Kinbote¹s Zemblan childhood memories. Assuming
Kinbote had an actual past that was not the creation of another mind.
Kinbote¹s Christianity is not conventional, but is a fancy invention based
on the hope of a forgiving Christ and a monarch-loving God. I don¹t believe
Shade is a Christian of any stripe, but is quite possibly a ghost, hovering
over the places where his corporeal life was passed, frightened, pained, and
fascinated by the idea of death, and still uncertain of how to get on a
proper footing in eternity. In the end, Shade¹s soul flies free, in
defiance of the old expression of a ghost, a shade, being ³laid² as in ³laid
to rest.²
This fearsomely lengthy note comes to you courtesy of the Insomniacs
Positive Hope association.
Your servant, sir,
Andrew S. Brown
On 9/7/06 10:16 PM, "Nabokv-L" <nabokv-l@UTK.EDU> wrote:
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [NABOKV-L] A.S. Brown on Kinbote's Christianity
> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
> <mailto:jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
> To: Vladimir Nabokov Forum <NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> <mailto:NABOKV-L@LISTSERV.UCSB.EDU>
> I'm struck by your attribution of fundamentalism to Kinbote, just
> as I was by Carolyn's attribution of zealotry. As I understand it,
> fundamentalists aren't casual about homosexuality--if they can't
> help engaging in it, they try to justify it religiously or reproach
> themselves afterwards. They spend time studying the Bible (and
> official doctrine and devotions, if you're thinking of
> "fundamentalist Catholics"), and in a religious argument, they rely
> on it as proof. In difficult situations, they turn to the Bible or
> to prayer. (Kinbote gives us one four-word prayer.) They "give
> God the glory" when talking about their accomplishments, at least
> when they remember to.
>
> Explicitly, "our Zemblan brand of Protestantism is rather closely
> related to some of the 'higher' churches of the Anglican
> communion" (n. 549). I think high-church Anglicans are far from
> fundamentalists.
>
> Kinbote does attend two services one Sunday and does mention his
> Christianity several times, but I wouldn't even call him devout,
> much less a zealot or a fundamentalist.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by identifying the young priest. Are
> you thinking he's some New Wye character transformed in Kinbote's
> delusion?
>
> My main feeling on Kinbote's Christianity is that it's conventional
> and contrasts with Shade's superior and original understanding of
> the supernatural and the afterlife (whether he's going to heaven or
> not). But no doubt I'm missing a lot in the details. (A friend of
> mine has the maiden name Rodstein--probably just a coincidence.)
>
> No other Christianity is mentioned in the book, right? (Except the
> Pope.)
>
> Jerry Friedman
>
> Search the Nabokv-L archive at UCSB
> <http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html>
> Contact the Editors <mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu>
> All private editorial communications, without exception, are read by both
> co-editors.
> Visit Zembla <http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm>
> View Nabokv-L Policies <http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm>
>
Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm