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Re: Luk, Luke, Luka, Luko...
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[EDNOTE. Two replies, the first from John A. Rea and the second from Sergei Soloviev. I suggest that we move onto another topic after this, since the discussion is no longer connected to VN. Thanks -- SES]
1. From John A. Rea:
Jerry Katsell wrote:
> I make bold as a near-native of Russian to answer your query
> re "luk".
And this word is in turn etymologically identical to
German "Lauch" which means "leek" (Indo-European
root 'leug', which can be found in Cal Watkins
nice little dictionary of such roots, along with
various of its cousins in other languages.)
John
2. From Sergei Soloviev:
Dear Jerry,
I feel that it is time to some objections, looking at all these
"onion" associations.
- initially family names in Russia existed only among high nobility,
and for the rest, there were patronyms (Ivan, Petrov syn = Peter's son)
and sometimes nicknames. When the family names were introduced for general
population, it was mostly for tax purposes, they were derived
first of all from patronyms (so, it makes Luka in "Lukin" most probably
the father's (ancestor's) name), then of professions, places, and
nicknames. Since Russia was very religious country, biblical origine
of Luka seems overwhelmingly probable.
- Don't forget about "stress" in russian words, and a name, derived
from "Luk" (onion) would have different stress. (L'ukin). Name derived
from patronim would be here "Luk'in". Rather
the "onion" name would have different ending as well - Lukov, Lukovitsin,
Lukovkin
- The argument that "Luka" is grammatically feminine doesn't hold -
"mujchina" (man) is in this sense also grammatically feminine.
There are other names of this form - Foka, for example (usually
of Greek or Latin origin).
- "Luk" and "lukomorie" are weakly connected - even for literate
russian. What is common - is the idea of "bend" (layers in
onion).
- About bend of the river, in contemporary language nobody says
"luka" (it may be "izluchina"). "L'uka" can be part of
a saddle. Yes, this root has a meaning of "bend", and connected
may be to the layers in an onion. (Please, note, though, that
in scandinavian languages we have "log" for onions - e.g. in Danish.)
- If there is an interesting point concerning Kinbote, I think
it is the fact that he connects naturally "Lukin" and name "Luka", it may
point to "native Russianness" of Kinbote (in this case the link
to the name Luka is indeed natural), and if he is not native Russian,
but knows some russian then all this "onion" associations wouls bloom.
(Also if he were scandinavian.)
So one more argument that Kinbote = Botkin.
Best regards,
Sergei
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1. From John A. Rea:
Jerry Katsell wrote:
> I make bold as a near-native of Russian to answer your query
> re "luk".
And this word is in turn etymologically identical to
German "Lauch" which means "leek" (Indo-European
root 'leug', which can be found in Cal Watkins
nice little dictionary of such roots, along with
various of its cousins in other languages.)
John
2. From Sergei Soloviev:
Dear Jerry,
I feel that it is time to some objections, looking at all these
"onion" associations.
- initially family names in Russia existed only among high nobility,
and for the rest, there were patronyms (Ivan, Petrov syn = Peter's son)
and sometimes nicknames. When the family names were introduced for general
population, it was mostly for tax purposes, they were derived
first of all from patronyms (so, it makes Luka in "Lukin" most probably
the father's (ancestor's) name), then of professions, places, and
nicknames. Since Russia was very religious country, biblical origine
of Luka seems overwhelmingly probable.
- Don't forget about "stress" in russian words, and a name, derived
from "Luk" (onion) would have different stress. (L'ukin). Name derived
from patronim would be here "Luk'in". Rather
the "onion" name would have different ending as well - Lukov, Lukovitsin,
Lukovkin
- The argument that "Luka" is grammatically feminine doesn't hold -
"mujchina" (man) is in this sense also grammatically feminine.
There are other names of this form - Foka, for example (usually
of Greek or Latin origin).
- "Luk" and "lukomorie" are weakly connected - even for literate
russian. What is common - is the idea of "bend" (layers in
onion).
- About bend of the river, in contemporary language nobody says
"luka" (it may be "izluchina"). "L'uka" can be part of
a saddle. Yes, this root has a meaning of "bend", and connected
may be to the layers in an onion. (Please, note, though, that
in scandinavian languages we have "log" for onions - e.g. in Danish.)
- If there is an interesting point concerning Kinbote, I think
it is the fact that he connects naturally "Lukin" and name "Luka", it may
point to "native Russianness" of Kinbote (in this case the link
to the name Luka is indeed natural), and if he is not native Russian,
but knows some russian then all this "onion" associations wouls bloom.
(Also if he were scandinavian.)
So one more argument that Kinbote = Botkin.
Best regards,
Sergei
Search the archive: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/archives/nabokv-l.html
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
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