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NATASHA: Final thoughts
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[EDNOTE. Here are two additional replies from Laurence Hochard in an exchange with Joseph Aisenberg. Since the discussion of "Natasha" among other List members seems to have ended, however, I encourage Laurence and Joseph to continue their friendly colloquy privately. -- SES]
1. Laurence Hochard writes:
JA: the silver flask:
LH a silver CASE, a silver cigar case
JA: It's not a matter of objective proof in the text:
LH: yes it is(in my opinion); one can't impose one's meaning, one's fantasies on a text regardless of the reality of this text, the WORDS of THIS VERY TEXT even less so when the text is written by Nabokov!
If it's only a question of subjective appraisal, then real discussion and enquiry stop short and debate amounts to no more than more or less sophisticated chitchat.
I'm not saying that one can't have hunches but one must try to anchor them in the text for them to be validated
JA: ... and his large, somewhat corpulent figure swayed slightly, 'Ah, the distant congo, my dear Alexy Ivanych...'" Now to my inner ear this sounds at least a little like boasting
LH: I don't think so; I think the swaying movement is rather like a kind of trance; besides, everybody seems to live in a state of trance in this short story... and moreover, it doesn't seem to be consistent with the rest of the story; no, Wolfe is definitely not that kind of character; besides, there is no irony towards him from Nabokov.
JA: Also the old man's response, "'Natasha is back,' Khrenov quietly and firmly interjected, without raising his eyelids..." not only suggests how supersensitive he is, but also delicately hints at embarrassment on his part
LH: I disagree with that too; throughout the story, Khrenov seems to be a character mainly centered on what takes place within himself: his forebodings, his dreams or visions... I think he is sick, not only physically sick, because of what he lived through back in Russia; he is a broken man (there is this beautiful passage when Natasha remembers him as he used to be before exile)
JA: I mean why else name him Wolfe, if not as in the sexually big bad kind,
LH: YES !! I think you have a point there; there is definitely something strange about Wolfe; and his name points to that; when reading the story for the first time, I felt at the beginning that he was a danger for Natasha (his body is sort of hidden under the ample clothes...) but it came to nothing really; Natasha comes to no harm. After re-reading the story I found other unsettling details... But maybe you have more to say about that ?
Laurence Hochard
[in response to this earlier message from Joseph Aisenberg:]
Well I read the story twice, carefully. I admit that I did not notice the silver flask; I think your connection to the silver pencil is very thin to non-existent. As I said in my previous note, we've come to a point where our subjective takes on the story simply will not jibe, and that's all she wrote. It's not a matter of objective proof in the text. Whether or not Natasha knows he's lying, or whether or not part of his purpose is to cheer an old man up or not, may mitigate but does not entirely make moot my point. "'It was back when I was wandering around the Congo,' he was saying, and his large, somwhat corpulent figure swayed slightly, 'Ah, the distant congo, my dear Alexy Ivanych...'" Now to my inner ear this sounds at least a little like boasting, as much as simple entertainment for a sick man, indeed the mention of his swaying belly not only recalls the fat-bellied kinglet of his absurd annecdote, but also a contemptuous image of fat middle-aged guys who like to sit around and pump themselves up with grand adventures they never lived through. Also the old man's response, "'Natasha is back,' Khrenov quietly and firmly interjected, without raising his eyelids..." not only suggests how supersensitive he is, but also delicately hints at embarrassment on his part, an attempt such Wolfe up. It was primarily by this part I first thought Nabokov was being ironic about Wolfe. In the country trip, though, he switches things around tries to make him charming. It's a trick. I mean why else name him Wolfe, if not as in the sexually big bad kind, only try for something differrent--it doesn't work. And I think you cannot really be so certain from the text that Natasha knew he was boasting. Certainly a first reading suggests that she tells him about herVirgin Mary vision and her bell-ringing because she believes that his mysterious worldliness will make him understand her experiences and then takes them back when he admits to lying, so that he won't think she's wacky. A second reading made me almost totally unsure as to what was intended with her character. As to a detail I did notice: when Natasha goes out to the country with Wolfe, Khrenov is looking for a newspaper, even under the couch; when she returns it is for that paper he is leaving the apartment. Again an ambiguity. Is it really his ghost or suggestible hysteria on her part that makes her give him as a post-life task the last thing she saw him doing?
2. Laurence Hochard writes:
JA: And are teasing me when you say that descriptions of her eyelids amount to more characterization than her eroticism and visions?
LH: No, I was not; I was only trying to show you that Natasha is neither "mushy" nor "formless", that there's a physical as well as a spiritual description of her person. But of course I don't deny that her "visions" and her "eroticism" are very important in her characterization.
JA: Why is she so easily convinced?...this sudden leaving was most unconvincing
LH: I would rather say , this sudden leaving is strange, unexpected, mysterious... In the same line of idea there is this passage too: "Natasha, Natasha, you forgot to buy the papers yesterday..." Natasha busied herself brewing some tea at the alcohol stove" as if she didn't mind, as if she stopped caring for her father...
Even if Nabokov was then a very young writer, I think he nevertheless was well aware of how his character's behaviour would affect the reader; I mean he is not just being awkward and unconvincing; there's something more here.
Laurence Hochard
[in response to this earlier message from Joseph Aisenberg:]
Hochard: Forces? It seems to me that Natasha is easily convinced she can leave her father to the landlady's care.
This is precisely my point. Why is she so easily convinced? He's a little better after a rough night, but as concerned as I thought she was, this sudden leaving was most unconvincing. And are teasing me when you say that descriptions of her eyelids amount to more characterization than her eroticism and visions? Cause that's what I thought I was referring to?
Hochard: By the way, can you tell me more about that word (formication): is it unusual in english?
Yes, it's quite an unusual word to toss into a short story (but then Nabokov is the total dictionary-freak writer), so odd that I kept my eyes out for ants after looking it up.
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1. Laurence Hochard writes:
JA: the silver flask:
LH a silver CASE, a silver cigar case
JA: It's not a matter of objective proof in the text:
LH: yes it is(in my opinion); one can't impose one's meaning, one's fantasies on a text regardless of the reality of this text, the WORDS of THIS VERY TEXT even less so when the text is written by Nabokov!
If it's only a question of subjective appraisal, then real discussion and enquiry stop short and debate amounts to no more than more or less sophisticated chitchat.
I'm not saying that one can't have hunches but one must try to anchor them in the text for them to be validated
JA: ... and his large, somewhat corpulent figure swayed slightly, 'Ah, the distant congo, my dear Alexy Ivanych...'" Now to my inner ear this sounds at least a little like boasting
LH: I don't think so; I think the swaying movement is rather like a kind of trance; besides, everybody seems to live in a state of trance in this short story... and moreover, it doesn't seem to be consistent with the rest of the story; no, Wolfe is definitely not that kind of character; besides, there is no irony towards him from Nabokov.
JA: Also the old man's response, "'Natasha is back,' Khrenov quietly and firmly interjected, without raising his eyelids..." not only suggests how supersensitive he is, but also delicately hints at embarrassment on his part
LH: I disagree with that too; throughout the story, Khrenov seems to be a character mainly centered on what takes place within himself: his forebodings, his dreams or visions... I think he is sick, not only physically sick, because of what he lived through back in Russia; he is a broken man (there is this beautiful passage when Natasha remembers him as he used to be before exile)
JA: I mean why else name him Wolfe, if not as in the sexually big bad kind,
LH: YES !! I think you have a point there; there is definitely something strange about Wolfe; and his name points to that; when reading the story for the first time, I felt at the beginning that he was a danger for Natasha (his body is sort of hidden under the ample clothes...) but it came to nothing really; Natasha comes to no harm. After re-reading the story I found other unsettling details... But maybe you have more to say about that ?
Laurence Hochard
[in response to this earlier message from Joseph Aisenberg:]
Well I read the story twice, carefully. I admit that I did not notice the silver flask; I think your connection to the silver pencil is very thin to non-existent. As I said in my previous note, we've come to a point where our subjective takes on the story simply will not jibe, and that's all she wrote. It's not a matter of objective proof in the text. Whether or not Natasha knows he's lying, or whether or not part of his purpose is to cheer an old man up or not, may mitigate but does not entirely make moot my point. "'It was back when I was wandering around the Congo,' he was saying, and his large, somwhat corpulent figure swayed slightly, 'Ah, the distant congo, my dear Alexy Ivanych...'" Now to my inner ear this sounds at least a little like boasting, as much as simple entertainment for a sick man, indeed the mention of his swaying belly not only recalls the fat-bellied kinglet of his absurd annecdote, but also a contemptuous image of fat middle-aged guys who like to sit around and pump themselves up with grand adventures they never lived through. Also the old man's response, "'Natasha is back,' Khrenov quietly and firmly interjected, without raising his eyelids..." not only suggests how supersensitive he is, but also delicately hints at embarrassment on his part, an attempt such Wolfe up. It was primarily by this part I first thought Nabokov was being ironic about Wolfe. In the country trip, though, he switches things around tries to make him charming. It's a trick. I mean why else name him Wolfe, if not as in the sexually big bad kind, only try for something differrent--it doesn't work. And I think you cannot really be so certain from the text that Natasha knew he was boasting. Certainly a first reading suggests that she tells him about herVirgin Mary vision and her bell-ringing because she believes that his mysterious worldliness will make him understand her experiences and then takes them back when he admits to lying, so that he won't think she's wacky. A second reading made me almost totally unsure as to what was intended with her character. As to a detail I did notice: when Natasha goes out to the country with Wolfe, Khrenov is looking for a newspaper, even under the couch; when she returns it is for that paper he is leaving the apartment. Again an ambiguity. Is it really his ghost or suggestible hysteria on her part that makes her give him as a post-life task the last thing she saw him doing?
2. Laurence Hochard writes:
JA: And are teasing me when you say that descriptions of her eyelids amount to more characterization than her eroticism and visions?
LH: No, I was not; I was only trying to show you that Natasha is neither "mushy" nor "formless", that there's a physical as well as a spiritual description of her person. But of course I don't deny that her "visions" and her "eroticism" are very important in her characterization.
JA: Why is she so easily convinced?...this sudden leaving was most unconvincing
LH: I would rather say , this sudden leaving is strange, unexpected, mysterious... In the same line of idea there is this passage too: "Natasha, Natasha, you forgot to buy the papers yesterday..." Natasha busied herself brewing some tea at the alcohol stove" as if she didn't mind, as if she stopped caring for her father...
Even if Nabokov was then a very young writer, I think he nevertheless was well aware of how his character's behaviour would affect the reader; I mean he is not just being awkward and unconvincing; there's something more here.
Laurence Hochard
[in response to this earlier message from Joseph Aisenberg:]
Hochard: Forces? It seems to me that Natasha is easily convinced she can leave her father to the landlady's care.
This is precisely my point. Why is she so easily convinced? He's a little better after a rough night, but as concerned as I thought she was, this sudden leaving was most unconvincing. And are teasing me when you say that descriptions of her eyelids amount to more characterization than her eroticism and visions? Cause that's what I thought I was referring to?
Hochard: By the way, can you tell me more about that word (formication): is it unusual in english?
Yes, it's quite an unusual word to toss into a short story (but then Nabokov is the total dictionary-freak writer), so odd that I kept my eyes out for ants after looking it up.
Search archive with Google:
http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:listserv.ucsb.edu&HL=en
Contact the Editors: mailto:nabokv-l@utk.edu,nabokv-l@holycross.edu
Visit Zembla: http://www.libraries.psu.edu/nabokov/zembla.htm
View Nabokv-L policies: http://web.utk.edu/~sblackwe/EDNote.htm
Visit "Nabokov Online Journal:" http://www.nabokovonline.com
Manage subscription options: http://listserv.ucsb.edu/